break material in wort during fermentation

[Fil]

is there any problem with break material and protofloc debris staying in the wort during primary fermentation?

will it just drop out as trub and remain behind during the transfer to 2ndary.

im considering bagging hops for a first brew in a new boiler without any drain filter in place.

tia

[Troutman47]

I had a lot of cold break come through when I made a Black Sheep Best Bitter.

I was told that a bit of cold break won't hurt the yeast infact, it quite likes it.
It was also recommended that I transfer to a secondary which I did but wish I hadn't as the cold break dropped out nicely and the yeast cake on the bottom looked exactly as it normally did but then after a week in the secondary when I went to bottle it there wasn't quite enough suspended yeast to carbonate my bottles.

After about 4 weeks though, the carbonation has increased in the bottles and I can now get a head on the beer and it doesn't taste flat.

[WishboneBrewery]

Its common brewery practice to use a heat-exchanger / Plate Chiller to cool, this means the break material forms as the wort is cooled and always settles in the fermenter... its not something to worry about and it will settle out with the yeast when its finished.

[Wolfy]

Cold break should not be much of an issue - I use a plate-chiller and the only time I make an effort to remove the cold break is if I'm brewing a clean/crisp/pale lager.
However, if you're not going to even whirlpool the kettle and drain it directly, you will also get lots of hot break, which most people try to avoid getting in the fermentor.

[Martin G]

I started using hop bags, I've set the drainer to the side. I don't whirlpool as I prefer to let it settle out, at flame out I encourage the hop bags to the tap side of the cooling cool in the hope that they sort of dam the trub. I then keep everthing as still as possible whilst cooling. Have been very pleased with my brews, but to be honest am not sure how much hot break ends up in the fermenter. Have thought about getting a fine mesh sieve to drain through (this would happen outside of the boiler so I can clean if it blinds), but not got round to it. Based on my results so far am not in a hurry, but have not brewed a very pale beer recently.

[Fil]

Cheers,

so do my best to get the hot break separated first. hmmm the only problem i have with whirlpooling is the boiler capacity is 3 times my controled fermentation capacity. so i was planning to no chill store 2/3 of the boil, then chill and ferment the rest. if i were to whirlpool prior to the no-chil storing, the wort after 20mins standing isnt going to be sterilising hot when it goes into its jerrycan..


The hot break is small stuff clumped together into bigger bits as a result of adding irshmoss or protofloc tabs right? in which case the more protofloc used ie whole tab compared to a fraction the bigger n clumpier it gets?


i wonder If i were to employ a hop sock or spider, and during the last 15 mins of the boil, pumped/ recirculated the wort back thru the sock or spider could this filter out enough of the hot break material.

[Dr. Dextrin]

The main problem I get with cold break is when it makes it though into the bottles. I find it sometimes doesn't settle very firmly in the FV and gets sucked over. This makes it hard to pour a clear glassfull from the bottle. Although the yeast may settle firmly in the bottle, the cold break doesn't.

So far I don't have a very good solution to this problem as I often tend to bottle from the FV. Perhaps using a secondary FV would help, but I suspect some would still make it through.

[seymour]

The main problem I get with cold break is when it makes it though into the bottles. I find it sometimes doesn't settle very firmly in the FV and gets sucked over. This makes it hard to pour a clear glassfull from the bottle. Although the yeast may settle firmly in the bottle, the cold break doesn't.

So far I don't have a very good solution to this problem as I often tend to bottle from the FV. Perhaps using a secondary FV would help, but I suspect some would still make it through.

One cool trick I've used is a homemade hopback. I know, I know a true "hopback" is typically inserted between the boil kettle and fermentor, then the wort is pumped through hot. But I place mine in-line with the racking tube when going from the secondary fermentor into the bottling bucket or keg, using nothing but gravity/siphon motion. Even cold, finished beer picks up lots of fresh "dry-hop" aroma, and--if built correctly--the hop back also acts as a final filter stage.

Some pictures of similar designs: http://hbd.org/discus/messages/43688/46 ... 1228281323

Worth considering, anyway.

[EoinMag]

The hot break is small stuff clumped together into bigger bits as a result of adding irshmoss or protofloc tabs right? in which case the more protofloc used ie whole tab compared to a fraction the bigger n clumpier it gets?

Don't use too much moss or protofloc, at some point it will become a large gelatinous fluffy mass at the bottom of the fermenter that will stop you from draining off beer and will lead to a loss of beer. You should be using in or about a gram of protofloc for a standard 5 gallon brew of standard gravity.

[Fil]

The hot break is small stuff clumped together into bigger bits as a result of adding irshmoss or protofloc tabs right? in which case the more protofloc used ie whole tab compared to a fraction the bigger n clumpier it gets?

Don't use too much moss or protofloc, at some point it will become a large gelatinous fluffy mass at the bottom of the fermenter that will stop you from draining off beer and will lead to a loss of beer. You should be using in or about a gram of protofloc for a standard 5 gallon brew of standard gravity.

thanks for the heads up EoinMag, i have been using irish moss since i started ag.. i bought a AG kit from WHS which came with a protofloc tab, i used about 1/3 of it in my last brew up (23-25l) my braid filter/valve clogged up as i drew of a gravity sample while chilling !!!!!! i ended up pouring the wort out the kettle neck, only lost about 5-6l to spills fingers crossed i kegged from 2ndry day before yesterday it seemed pretty clear:) lots of trub in primary, and it tastes a bit bitter but that could have

however this incident is whats feeding this idea. If Im right and the protofloc coalesces hot break material a heavy(er) dose may gell it enough to get trapped in a hop spider if pumped through, however its a case of not using too much as to clog the valve or pump..
the math to derive the specific quantity for this purpose is probably beyond the capacity of my fag packet back.

[EoinMag]

The hot break is small stuff clumped together into bigger bits as a result of adding irshmoss or protofloc tabs right? in which case the more protofloc used ie whole tab compared to a fraction the bigger n clumpier it gets?

Don't use too much moss or protofloc, at some point it will become a large gelatinous fluffy mass at the bottom of the fermenter that will stop you from draining off beer and will lead to a loss of beer. You should be using in or about a gram of protofloc for a standard 5 gallon brew of standard gravity.

thanks for the heads up EoinMag, i have been using irish moss since i started ag.. i bought a AG kit from WHS which came with a protofloc tab, i used about 1/3 of it in my last brew up (23-25l) my braid filter/valve clogged up as i drew of a gravity sample while chilling !!!!!! i ended up pouring the wort out the kettle neck, only lost about 5-6l to spills fingers crossed i kegged from 2ndry day before yesterday it seemed pretty clear:) lots of trub in primary, and it tastes a bit bitter but that could have

however this incident is whats feeding this idea. If Im right and the protofloc coalesces hot break material a heavy(er) dose may gell it enough to get trapped in a hop spider if pumped through, however its a case of not using too much as to clog the valve or pump..
the math to derive the specific quantity for this purpose is probably beyond the capacity of my fag packet back.

Search for a thread Irish moss vs protofloc. Graham Wheeler does the maths and you can benefit from it if you have a search. There's also an interesting discussion around the subject.

[Fil]

will do, cheers.

[Wolfy]

The very interesting GW written information can be found here: http://www.practicalbrewing.co.uk/finin ... tml#fining
A product called 'Brew Brite" is becoming increasingly popular with Australian home brewers because it combines both kettle finnings and fermentor finings in the one application/product.

[orlando]

The hot break is small stuff clumped together into bigger bits as a result of adding irshmoss or protofloc tabs right? in which case the more protofloc used ie whole tab compared to a fraction the bigger n clumpier it gets?


i wonder If i were to employ a hop sock or spider, and during the last 15 mins of the boil, pumped/ recirculated the wort back thru the sock or spider could this filter out enough of the hot break material.

Interesting comment as my experience is very much in line with this. I started out using Irish Moss as my copper fining but wasn't happy with it's performance, tried Protafloc and was stunned by how efficient it was. Problem with it though was it was too efficent. I went to a plate chiller and was really concerned about clogging it with break material, particularly as my hop stopper is a copper manifold with slots cut into it, so I had SWMBO run up a "hop sock" that I tied onto the manifold. The combination of this and the protafloc was dramatic, run off was crystal clear but took forever. I reduced the Protafloc to less than a teaspoon, more like 1/2, by the way I use the granules which are so much better than tablets, the result is the perfect balance between clarity and run off speed.

[Fil]

cheers orlando the bagged stopper is on the list of options under tried and tested.. the pot im hoping to use has bugger all deadspace, the only drawback with this option is that it will create a small level of deadspace in the boiler. perhaps thats inevitable, but at the moment im chewing on ideas that will maintain this Zero Deadspace.. i may well end up with a bagged stopper tho .