first TC attempt

[newtonsshed]

Right, having nothing brewed in a long time and limited time I'm looking at having a go at making a TC I have no demijohns so either a £1.05 5l water bottle or use the 15L water cube thing that I used for water in the camper van, I also already have 1l of red grape juice not from concentrate I'm thinking along the lines of deadskins recipe on the first page and adapte it slightly to this;

15 lts of Tesco Apple and blsckcurent (currently on offer 1.5L at £2.50 for 3 sp total cost £7.50)
I might also use a mixture of apple and elderflower with the apple and blackcurren as also on any 3 for £2.50 but only 1l
1l Red grape juice not from concentrate (would I still need the tea as doesn't grape skin contain tannins?)
1 or 2 jars of clear honey £2 340g/680g
8 dessert/eating apples off own tree blended or grated
1 cup of strong tea made with 3/4 bags
youngs cider yeast
Total cost £9.50 + yeast for 15l or £4.55 + yeast for 5l

Would you do all the same ie apple and blackcurrent in 1 15l or split it across 3 5l so do a apple and elderflower and apple and blackcurrrent? Also do you rack it off at any point, mind you if I did I can temparily put it in a 25l fv and then clean out and put back in

Does this sound ok for a recipe and has anyone tried the Apple and blackcurrent or apple and elderflower from thesco at all also is that agood price for juice from concentrate?

Thanks
Andy

[oldbloke]

Do any of those juices have preservatives that'll need boiling off?
The grape juice won't have the tannin that wine grapes would have, they're different to grapes for eating or juice.
It'll be around 5%, maybe a bit more, without the honey - I'd save some money by leaving that out.
One 15l ferment is less hassle, but splitting gives you the chance to try variations. Pros and cons there.
I never rack mine, when it's done I bottle. If you're planning on maturing for a long time though it'll be better to rack so you can mature it in bulk.

[newtonsshed]

Thanks, so you wouldn't bother with the honey, how about normal sugar/cane sugar ?
Thanks again

[oldbloke]

Thanks, so you wouldn't bother with the honey, how about normal sugar/cane sugar ?
Thanks again

Only if you want it stronger than 5%. Then maybe I might use honey, for a bit of extra taste complexity.
5% is enough for me - I like to be able to go upstairs to bed, not collapse on the sofa

[newtonsshed]

Ah ok just a rough aproximate if I were to add 340g of honey what would the %abv aprox be? Same for 680g?

Also just found in the brewery cupboard some wine tannin shell I use this instead of tea and if so how much?

I also found some pectolase which;
Pectolase added to the fruit pulp has two effects, reducing the risk of a pectin haze and increasing the yield of juice from the pulp as the pectolase liquifies the pulp. is it worth using some in TC not so much for the haze but to get a higher yeild of juice from the apples that I will be adding?

[oldbloke]

If you're going to stick some real apples in, add the pectolase.
Wine tannin may colour the brew less than tea, and won't taste of tea, and leaves more room for actual juice, so yeh. Dunno how much one uses, as I don't.
Honey is approx 80% sugar, so 340g->275g ish. In 1 litre that'd give almost 14%, over 15 it'll be a bit less than 1% (over what your juices give)

[newtonsshed]

thanks again just set up another thread as wasn't sure if get any replies on this so early buit a few more questions please..!
Can I have an open fermenter or does it need an air lock as the 15l cube neck that I might use as the FV is a bit too big for bung and airlock so was just going to leave the cap off for primary not sure how to do secondary I suppose could put the cap on and every now and than depending on pressure release a little bit?

I also found some youngs super wine compound could I use this as yeast not sure how out of date it is or would fresh yeast and nutrients be needed?

[newtonsshed]

Also how much head room should I leave in the primary FV say in the 15l how much juice should I use was oginally thinking 15 l of juice ie fill to brim but of course would lead to a very big mess esp if open fv too! Should I use 10l giving 4l headspace and once calmed down top up to brim?

[oldbloke]

In a demi I generally leave at least a litre's worth of headspace. And don't top up until day 4. Not sure what that'd translate to in some other vessel.
I don't really do primary/secondary, I just ferment until clear, bottle and leave to condition
You can get away without an airlock, just some sort of cover that'll stop stuff falling in and let a bit of gas out (manually if you have to). Maybe a small jug inverted over the neck of your fermenter?
Might as well try the Young's, if it fails you can just pitch some fresh yeast

[newtonsshed]

even if used pulp you just ferment in one without racking off I thought if using real fruit peices you'd need to rack it off - no?

[oldbloke]

Oh, yeh, you're putting RealFruit in. I never have, so I've never needed to rack. If the stuff clears and the pulp's sunk nicely, you might not need to. Probably will though. "Real" cider makers squeeze the juice out and don't use the pulp, but keeping a bit in should help with tannin+flavour.

[newtonsshed]

yeah using real fruit thought might help add depth!?

See my other post here goes just finished my first ever TC as follows

11.5L of a mix of apple + blackberry, rasberry & elderflower all containing 11.1g sugar per 100 ml
2x 340g clear honey
aprox 200g sugar (if that got 500g bag with over half left will weigh it to work it out thought be plently of sugar despite comparing to anothger brand that has 13g of sugar hence the justification of adding 200g soft brown sugar )
10 dessert apples roughly chopped freshly picked from my fruit tree
wine tannin 2 teaspoons after reading a few post elsewhere
teaspoon or so of Pectolase after reading it's natural
teaspoon of wine yeast nuteriants (hope cider yeast likes these?!)
2x 5g packs of youngs cider yeast
2 crushed Campden tablets to inhibit wild yeast establishing after some research as I thought this would also inhibit the ider yeast but appantly not although now just read somewhere else should also be used in conjuction with Potassium Sorbate (Stabiliser tablets) but hey this isn't looking like TC anymore is it

I reckon total cost; as cost at tesco at £13 which included 4 cans of ready made cider at £3 (7.5% for 4X 440ml and a 99p pizza) = £9 for 15l of juice concentrate + £4ish at chemist for 2 packs of cider yeast and a tub of nutrients (yeast was "1.20 X 2 = £2.40 maybe next time small scale experiement with adding Raisin & without Campden tablets so to use wild yeast saving £2.40 unless I harvest yeast from this brew (have to freeze is as want see how it turns out before trying again) so to reproduce looking at £9 (including juice, honey and sugar) + yeast unless natural whereas could buy a beer kit between £10.50 & £12 containing between 1.5kg to 1.8kg of malt + yeast + sugar or enhancer say sugar at say £2 for soft dark so £14 + yeast at £1.20 = £15.20 so £6.20 saving with potentail higher abv even to buy the ready made stuff at £3 for 4 cans of 440ml at simalar strenght be £21 for same amount .