simple water treatment.

[stuey]

The OP was looking for a simple approach to water treatment.

I accept that simple is a relative term depending on the person judging how simple it is.

Irrespective of this the Murphys solution to water treatment is very simple.

Send water off.

Get results back.

Buy what Murphys tell you to buy on the phone.

Look at results sheet.

Work out how much of either white powder or clear liquid you need to add and crack on.

Studying water board results, undertaking titrations yourself, using spreadsheets and procuring/adding reagents etc etc etc is simply not simple

I would add that my degree and background is in biomedical sciences and analytical chemistry.
I use the Murphys report and their reagents because my life is too damn busy to be faffing around doing it any other way other than the "simple" way
And no, I am not on commission and do not work for or have any connection to Murphys other than being a satisfied customer.

[Aleman]

Irrespective of this the Murphys solution to water treatment is very simple.

Send water off. Get results back. Buy what Murphys tell you to buy on the phone. Look at results sheet. Work out how much of either white powder or clear liquid you need to add and crack on.

<snip>

I use the Murphys report and their reagents because my life is too damn busy to be faffing around doing it any other way other than the "simple" way

It's a simple method . . . but doesn't take into account the time the water company switches supply on you, and is very much a "one size fits all" approach. At a fundamental level I disagree with the 'target levels' of ions Murphys specify for the beer styles in some cases they are just wrong and in others they are inexplicable. However, many of their customers (commercial) brew fine ales so who am I to argue. Asking for a more comprehensive explanation using the raw salts and acids allows you to specifically tailor the water they way you want it for your beer . . . not the way you are told it 'needs' to be.

[WallyBrew]

I would add that my degree and background is in biomedical sciences and analytical chemistry.

Not quite sure what that tells us

[stuey]

Irrespective of this the Murphys solution to water treatment is very simple.

Send water off. Get results back. Buy what Murphys tell you to buy on the phone. Look at results sheet. Work out how much of either white powder or clear liquid you need to add and crack on.

<snip>

I use the Murphys report and their reagents because my life is too damn busy to be faffing around doing it any other way other than the "simple" way

It's a simple method . . . but doesn't take into account the time the water company switches supply on you, and is very much a "one size fits all" approach. At a fundamental level I disagree with the 'target levels' of ions Murphys specify for the beer styles in some cases they are just wrong and in others they are inexplicable. However, many of their customers (commercial) brew fine ales so who am I to argue. Asking for a more comprehensive explanation using the raw salts and acids allows you to specifically tailor the water they way you want it for your beer . . . not the way you are told it 'needs' to be.

Agreed, supplies switch.
In a homebrew environment it isn't going to be a train smash if the levels aren't absolutely on the nose though. I suspect the majority would not detect differences in a taste test.
But as you have agreed above... It offers a simple solution to the OP's request for a simple solution.

As you rightly say, if it is good enough for commercial brewers (and I am friends with a couple of successful brewers who use the Murphys option) then, personally speaking, I am happy.
That said, I am not a homebrewer who tries to over complicate things for the sake of it as I have too many other things occupying my time.
And that comment is not aimed at anyone personally at all as I am prone to over complicating things in some of my other hobbies.

[stuey]

I would add that my degree and background is in biomedical sciences and analytical chemistry.

Not quite sure what that tells us

It tells you that I was trained to "do" the kind of stuff relating to water treatment and that I undertook manual titrations often daily amongst many other things.
It is a simple process if you have time and the inclination to go down that road or have been trained and work in that field.
I don't have time so choose the Murphy's route.
It is clear from the OP's post he/she does not want to go down the science route either.
Murphy's is a simple solution.

[a-slayer]

I managed to get from my water supplier the range of figures they get for for a testing period so I could get some idea of my water profile over time.
As you can see they are all over the place. This water comes from Severn Trent.

This is the results of their latest testing period.


01/01/2013 – 30/06/2013
Alkalinity (mg/l as CaCO3) 107 - 150
Alkalinity (mg/l as HCO3) Not analysed
Total Hardness (mg/l as CaCO3) 186 - 252
Magnesium Hardness (mg/l as MgCO3) 47 - 64
Calcium Hardness (mg/l as CaCO3) 139 - 188
Calcium (mg/l as Ca) 42 - 72
Magnesium (mg/l as Mg) 8.8 – 15.3
Sodium (mg/l as Na) 27 - 57
Sulphate (mg/l as SO4) 57 - 87
Chloride (mg/l as Cl) 38 - 77

" The source of water is from Mythe Water Treatment Works which abstracts water from the River Severn. As this is a river source it will be subject to seasonal changes so the values reported should only be used as a guide."

[WallyBrew]

I managed to get from my water supplier the range of figures they get for for a testing period so I could get some idea of my water profile over time.
As you can see they are all over the place. This water comes from Severn Trent.

This is the results of their latest testing period.


01/01/2013 – 30/06/2013
Alkalinity (mg/l as CaCO3) 107 - 150
Alkalinity (mg/l as HCO3) Not analysed
Total Hardness (mg/l as CaCO3) 186 - 252
Magnesium Hardness (mg/l as MgCO3) 47 - 64
Calcium Hardness (mg/l as CaCO3) 139 - 188
Calcium (mg/l as Ca) 42 - 72
Magnesium (mg/l as Mg) 8.8 – 15.3
Sodium (mg/l as Na) 27 - 57
Sulphate (mg/l as SO4) 57 - 87
Chloride (mg/l as Cl) 38 - 77

" The source of water is from Mythe Water Treatment Works which abstracts water from the River Severn. As this is a river source it will be subject to seasonal changes so the values reported should only be used as a guide."

So they can do an alkalinity as calcium carbonate but claim that bicarbonate was not analysed - UKAS 17025 stuff no doubt
Magnesium hardness as MgCO3 ? Has to be CaCO3 because 64 + 188 = 252
If it were MgCO3 it should be 54

No one cares any longer - spell checkers do it all - spreadsheets do it all - no one notices when things don't add up

[spanspoon]

I too live in a hard water area. I've only got 5 all grain brews under my belt. My stouts have been as good as any I've tasted in a pub but my lighter ales aren't quite up to that standard. Perhaps the full bodied stout masks any mistakes I've made...who knows!

I brewed yesterday and treated my water for the first time using the wheeler method, here it is;

To treat 25 litres of water, bring this amount to the boil and at the start of the boil, add 12grams of Calcium Sulphate (gypsum), 3 grams of common salt, and boil vigorously for half an hour. After this period switch off the heat. When the precipitate (the chalky white stuff) has settled out overnight, add 2 grams of Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salts).

I treated 25l then 12.5l the the previous night to give me enough water for my brew day.

There was a layer of white chalky stuff on the bottom of my boilers and I simply syphoned off the water to make it ready for mashing.

As Mr Wheeler’s book says, "This water treatment is a good starting point irrespective of the type of beer being brewed and irrespective of your water supply". So if you don’t fancy the Water Analysis method, this one’s for you...

Hopefully it'll make a difference, I'll let ya know in a few weeks time!

[IPA]

I too live in a hard water area. I've only got 5 all grain brews under my belt. My stouts have been as good as any I've tasted in a pub but my lighter ales aren't quite up to that standard. Perhaps the full bodied stout masks any mistakes I've made...who knows!

I brewed yesterday and treated my water for the first time using the wheeler method, here it is;

To treat 25 litres of water, bring this amount to the boil and at the start of the boil, add 12grams of Calcium Sulphate (gypsum), 3 grams of common salt, and boil vigorously for half an hour. After this period switch off the heat. When the precipitate (the chalky white stuff) has settled out overnight, add 2 grams of Magnesium Sulphate (Epsom Salts).

I treated 25l then 12.5l the the previous night to give me enough water for my brew day.

There was a layer of white chalky stuff on the bottom of my boilers and I simply syphoned off the water to make it ready for mashing.

As Mr Wheeler’s book says, "This water treatment is a good starting point irrespective of the type of beer being brewed and irrespective of your water supply". So if you don’t fancy the Water Analysis method, this one’s for you...

Hopefully it'll make a difference, I'll let ya know in a few weeks time!

Basically that is the same advice as in the Dave Line book and as I said earlier in this post it works. Dave Line also gives his advice for four different beer types. If chemistry turns you on OK but remember beer has been brewed for more than three thousand years. Which was long before chemistry degrees were invented. If it tastes good thats all that matters.

[AnthonyUK]

I brewed yesterday and treated my water for the first time using the wheeler method

It would be great if it works out but I doubt it will be optimal as how can you have a one-size-fits-all solution for every type of water and beer style

You live in a hard water area which is why your stouts are good e.g. high alkalinity
Treat this alone and your lighter ales will improve.

It really doesn't have to be difficult but blindly adding salts and chemicals is no better and maybe worse than adding none at all.

People have been brewing beer for a long time but were constrained by geographical water properties e.g. porters in London, Lager in Pilzen etc.
Now we have the chemical knowledge we can with a small amount of effort create virtually any beer type to a quality only limited by our skills as a brewer.

[Clobber]

I'm sorry but this simple water treatment hasn't got simple enough for me yet...

I don't do any water treatment but would like to know if this could improve my beer.

I'm going to simply start by checking the alkalinity of my water to see if I should be acidifying it.

What do I use to acidify my water how much do I use if I need to? (Anyone who says acid... )

[AnthonyUK]

I'm sorry but this simple water treatment hasn't got simple enough for me yet...

I don't do any water treatment but would like to know if this could improve my beer.

I'm going to simply start by checking the alkalinity of my water to see if I should be acidifying it.

What do I use to acidify my water how much do I use if I need to? (Anyone who says acid... )

Hi,
Ask your water company for a breakdown of your supplied water. Most are really helpful.
If you can measure the alkalinity then great but if not take your water companies data to work it out using BruNwater or one of the many online calcs e.g look for calculators in top right or on THBF for a simplified one.
It looks daunting at first but read through the calcs info which does help.
For acid you can use AMS/CRS which can be used for some water profiles as they are a mix of hydrocloric and sulphuric so do also add sulphates and chlorides but this is getting into the last percentages of improvements.
Other acids which are more neutral include lactic and phosphoric.
You can also make smaller adjustments with acidulated malts.

[Redimpz]

[quote][/quote]
This is pretty much what I was after, in simple terms. if my water is high in alkalinity how do I go about reducing it? if it is by adding CRS, where do I get some and how much should I add.
(the same question goes for acidity)
Also, what does gypsum do?
To be honest, I am reasonably happy with my brews apart from head retention. I do add oats and Torrefied wheat to my mash. I have also tried cleaning my glasses with plain water and drying with paper towels but all to no avail.

[Redimpz]

sorry, I meant to quote Clobber's comment.
btw, if adding acid would citric or tartaric work?

[TC2642]

I just use CRS for my pale beers and nothing for my dark ones, they turn out fine. I did use a Safilert kit to know how much to reduce my alkalinity down to 5.4 but that's about it.