Inadequate boil = excess proteins?

[daf]

Hi did a 5kg maris boil on Sunday, I meant to do a sixty minute boil, which I think I did, but I noticed the wort was more cloudy than I normally get. After cooling, it's now in the FV, and there seems to be a LOT of solids forming at the bottom - more than I've ever had before. I had done an overnight mash, of nearly 12 hours, starting at 66c, ending at 50c.....any ideas?

[Rick_UK]

More likely the yeast at this stage. I wouldn't worry if its fermenting normally - all particles will drop out eventually especially if using finings before kegging or bottling. If its had 60 minutes at or near boiling it should be fine- hop utilisation may be a bit lower mind.

Rick

[daf]

Definitely not yeast, it was like this when I pitched. I'm fine with hops too as I went for 42 IBU, with only 15 from the 60 minute boil. The wort tasted nice and bitter.

It's just odd...there's like six inches of 'stuff' at the bottom of the fv.

[orlando]

A hard boil is key to a number of things not least helping proteins (that cause haze) to drop out of solution. You should be able to improve clarity colour and stability with a hard boil and better hop utilisation. If you have two elements in your boiler it pays to use them both for a full 60 minutes, too many brewers in my view "simmer" instead of boil. It is true that eventually all beers will clear but who wants to wait until their beer clears and end up with a thick unstable sediment in their bottled beer and have to wait months to do so? Pale, hoppy, low alcohol beers need to be drunk early to really appreciate them. Hard boil it, it is so much simpler.

[alix101]

Did you use kettle finings ? Excess protofloc/ whirlfloc causes clumping like brains.

[Goulders]

Sorry Orlando but I disagree you need a "hard" boil. Depending on what you mean by a hard boil that is. A rolling boil is sufficient, which is certainly more aggressive than a "simmer", ie bubbles breaking the surface but not splashing about. There are a number of factors that may have had an effect here for the OP: overnight mash; "thinks" he boiled for 60 mins. Was protofloc or similar used? No chill or cooled immediately?Perhaps if doing an overnight mash next time, the OP should consider boiling for longer (75 to 90 mins) to ensure a good hot break and adjusting volumes for boil off accordingly.

[alix101]

I had problems with chill haze I found that a hard boil helped enormously to reduce the proteins left in suspension .
Not the entire boil!!!! I'd be likely to end up with malt extract but hard boiling does indeed help with clarity.
A rolling boil is fine for the majority of the boil but a good 15 m blast before you add kettle finings worked for me.

[Aleman]

A hard boil is key to a number of things not least helping proteins (that cause haze) to drop out of solution.

Yep, a good rolling boil, for long enough is essential to achieve a good hot break.

You should be able to improve clarity colour and stability with a hard boil and better hop utilisation. If you have two elements in your boiler it pays to use them both for a full 60 minutes

5Kw in a 30L boiler are you aiming for 50%+ evaporation rates!! and caramel coloured wort. Ideally with an open boiler you should be aiming for an evaporation rate of about 12%, this will lead to the proper development of colours due to the malliard reactions, a good hot break, and effective hop utilisation . . . as well as effective use of energy . . . Go over about 15% and you start to see excessive wort darkening, and a degradation of flavours, greater than 20-25% you start to get the development of boiled vegetable flavours.

Alternatively if you want to maintain delicate flavours, and keep a pale colour, reduce the boil down to around 8% evaporation, of course you will find that you need to increase the length of the boil to compensate, but the bitterness that is extracted from the hops is IMO better. The vast majority of Czech brewers are known to 'simmer' their worts for 2 or 3 hours (pale and dark beers!!), and their beers are damn fine.

I 'simmer' my pale worts, I ensure that I have a good hot break, and my beers clear well in a very acceptable timescale. With a much reduced lagering schedule (possible through pitching large amounts of yeast, and crash chilling to 0C) I can be drinking my pilsners withing 3 weeks from mashing

[orlando]

Not quite 5kW. Today's brew was a 38l boil the evaporation was just over 19% over 90 minutes, the beer is a Barclay Perkins Porter so a little increase in colour (which I'm not concerned with) is no bad thing. Haven't noticed degradation of flavours. Typically I boil for 60 minutes and my evaporation is between 17-19%, I worry about clarity in my Pales more than the energy .

[guypettigrew]

Sorry to sort of hijack this thread, but the evaporation rate figures quoted above have got me worried.

My wort boils for 90 minutes with a loss of about 20% volume. Is this a bad thing? Should I try to calm the boil down?

Guy

[BenB]

That evaporation rate doesn't sound crazy. I was getting 17% per hour on my last brew.... The way I look at it a boil can't be too strong (unless it causes scorching or a boil over) whereas it can be too weak....

[orlando]

Sorry to sort of hijack this thread, but the evaporation rate figures quoted above have got me worried.

My wort boils for 90 minutes with a loss of about 20% volume. Is this a bad thing? Should I try to calm the boil down?

Guy

What problems are you having with your beer?

[Dave S]

These seem like large boil-offs. My Bufallo loses about 10% an hour for a 23 litre length with a rolling boil.

[guypettigrew]

Sorry to sort of hijack this thread, but the evaporation rate figures quoted above have got me worried.

My wort boils for 90 minutes with a loss of about 20% volume. Is this a bad thing? Should I try to calm the boil down?

Guy

What problems are you having with your beer?

The beer I make is very drinkable but, as with everything in life, I wonder if it could be even better!

My evaporation rate is almost exactly 1 gallon, 4.5 litres an hour during the boil.

Might the beer be better if this was reduced?

Guy

[daf]

Sorry Orlando but I disagree you need a "hard" boil. Depending on what you mean by a hard boil that is. A rolling boil is sufficient, which is certainly more aggressive than a "simmer", ie bubbles breaking the surface but not splashing about. There are a number of factors that may have had an effect here for the OP: overnight mash; "thinks" he boiled for 60 mins. Was protofloc or similar used? No chill or cooled immediately?Perhaps if doing an overnight mash next time, the OP should consider boiling for longer (75 to 90 mins) to ensure a good hot break and adjusting volumes for boil off accordingly.

I'll definitely do a 90 minute boil next time
Protofloc was used for final 15 minutes
No chill cube

I'll see how it goes, I ptched the yeast yesterday, but it's Mangrove Jack and that always takes a good 36 hours to start fermenting properly.