Question for someone who uses Brewer's Friend

[MTW]

I've got my liquor calculated pretty much how I want it for tomorrow's brew, but where can I see the alkalinity figure of the treated strike water (in ppm CACO3)? I want to add my CRS progressively and retest, rather than putting in the estimated quantity blind.

You can see my Brewer's Friend page >here< (I have it saved under a separate reference too, in case anyone accidentally edits it!)

There is an RA figure in the Mash Water Report (click 'even more detail') of 40, but that sounds pretty high for my pale grain vs the tap water alkalinity of 97, to hit the calculated mash pH of 5.4, so I'm thinking that figure may be something else. Is that really it?

Any help or clarification on that would be much appreciated!

[Jim]

I can't see it there, but I've not used that calculator before.

[barneey]

Assuming the page you have linked to hasn't been altered.
Mash = 13.8L
Sparge = 22.2L
Starting Water Alkalinity = 97 CaCO3

& the calculator is telling you to ADD 17ml of CRS? to 13.8L of mash water?????????

By my ROUGH calculation even if you wanted to reduce the Alkalinity down to say ZERO you would only be adding 7.30ml of CRS, if you added the full 17ml to your Mash water of 13.8L

[Aleman]

Residual alkalinity is a theoretical construct based on the amount of calcium, magnesium and 'carbonates'. It's not all that useful TBF.

[Dave S]

It seems odd that the calculator is advising 17mL CRS for mash and only 9.73 for the sparge. As Barneey says, 17mL is a heck of a lot anyway in 13.8L water. Do you have an Alkalinity test kit - Salifert or similar?. If so, try a different calculator, (maybe Graham's one on here) and add CRS gradually, testing for alkalinity after each addition. If you don't have such a kit, get one . Concentrate on getting the Alkalinity right and the pH will almost certainly be in the right range.

[Good Ed]

As above, and also using a Salifert kit is the way to test your alkalinity. You can also get one to test for calcium.

You can calculate manually for the addition of CRS/AMS by using these figures (they may vary slightly, but will be fine for use)

So adding 1ml/L of CRS to your liquor will reduce alkalinity by 187ppm, add chloride by 66ppm and add sulphate by 91ppm.

Using your liquor at 97 alkalinity, and assuming you are brewing a pale beer and want your alkalinity to be 30ppm for mash and sparge, you would add; 97-30 = 67 (you want to reduce alkalinity by this amount), 67/187 x 1ml/L = 0.36ml/L. So for your mash liquor of 13.8L you would add 13.8 x 0.36 = 4.94ml of CRS. This would also add 24ppm of Cl and 33ppm SO4.

If you have some CaSO4 (gypsum) and CaCl you can then balance your SO4:Cl ratio and in turn boost your calcium.

[MTW]

Thanks for the belated replies on this one! I went ahead with the brew 10 days ago, and decided to simply target CACO3 at 24ppm with gradual CRS addition, which I did, ignoring any arbitrary amounts, trusting the salifert kit instead. Mash pH was around 5.4 on the strips, and I can't detect and tannins or astringency in the now-fermented beer, so all looks good.

I know I can do the calculations, but I've found the CRS to reduce the alkalinity more than they would suggest, which is why I was after a figure to aim for.

I'm not sure I've understood the BF calc, but it may often seem to suggest a negative figure, with the sparge water then treated for pH(?) rather than alkalinity as such.

I have gypsum and CaCl to hand, and did add a touch of gypsum. I have a hefe coming up, for which I'm trying to decide whether to dilute with some ashbeck, or just balance the sulphates out with some CaCl and ignore the overall higher minerals.

[barneey]

Thanks for the belated replies on this one! I went ahead with the brew 10 days ago, and decided to simply target CACO3 at 24ppm with gradual CRS addition, which I did, ignoring any arbitrary amounts, trusting the salifert kit instead. Mash pH was around 5.4 on the strips, and I can't detect and tannins or astringency in the now-fermented beer, so all looks good.

I know I can do the calculations, but I've found the CRS to reduce the alkalinity more than they would suggest, which is why I was after a figure to aim for.

I'm not sure I've understood the BF calc, but it may often seem to suggest a negative figure, with the sparge water then treated for pH(?) rather than alkalinity as such.

I have gypsum and CaCl to hand, and did add a touch of gypsum. I have a hefe coming up, for which I'm trying to decide whether to dilute with some ashbeck, or just balance the sulphates out with some CaCl and ignore the overall higher minerals.

It might be worth taking the spreadsheet up with Brewer's (Un)Friend to see what they have to say, it might just stop a fellow brewer messing up a beer, I would also hope that members read this thread and as such treat calculators with a little caution.

All this predictive pH crap that most calculators rely on is becoming more of a liability than anything else. Get the Alkalinity & Calcium about right for the brew and the pH will fall within the correct range.

you followed the basic Alkalinity adjustment for your beer.

[Aleman]

Just remember that Residual Alkalinity is a theortetical concept, and only bears a slight relationship to Real Alkalinity

Fundamentally milliequivalents of RA = milliequivalents of bicarbonate - (milliequivalents of calcium/3.5) - (milliequivalents of magnesium/7.0)

Whereas REAL Alkalinity is just milliequivalents of bicarbonate ( . . . Well technically 'carbonate species' but at out pH it's all as hydrogen carbonate anyway )

So having a alkalinity, after acid treatment,of 25 and a 150mg/l calcium could very well have a negative residual alkalinity.

The concept of RA is based on Kohlbachs work in the 1950's (Which was limited in scope), and is what the various formulae use to predict the mash pH, I'm not certain if anyone has actually expanded on Kohlbachs work to see how it correlates with high mineral content liquors, and dark grists